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Feature #5593

GRB - Change learning path ergonomy

Added by Hubert Borderiou almost 9 years ago. Updated over 8 years ago.

Status:
Feature implemented
Priority:
High
Assignee:
Category:
Learning paths / Lecciones
Target version:
Start date:
03/10/2012
Due date:
% Done:

90%

Estimated time:
Spent time:
Complexity:
Normal
SCRUM pts - complexity:
?

Description

I think the learning path tool is now quite more complicated.

See screenshots.

. too much icons in the LP main page for action for each LP
. welcome page not really usefull I think, add a level of complexity
. Student view make us completely leave Chamilo, no more reference point.

what do you think ?


Files

2012-10-03_1705.png (263 KB) 2012-10-03_1705.png Hubert Borderiou, 03/10/2012 17:24
2012-10-03_1706.png (310 KB) 2012-10-03_1706.png Hubert Borderiou, 03/10/2012 17:24
2012-10-03_1713.png (228 KB) 2012-10-03_1713.png Hubert Borderiou, 03/10/2012 17:24
try_main_view.gif (51.2 KB) try_main_view.gif Why not like this for main view ? Hubert Borderiou, 03/10/2012 17:36
try_teacher_view.gif (30.2 KB) try_teacher_view.gif Why not like this for display ? Hubert Borderiou, 03/10/2012 17:36
try_LP-list-page.gif (39.4 KB) try_LP-list-page.gif Hubert Borderiou, 03/10/2012 17:46
LP_teacher_view_v1.png (37.5 KB) LP_teacher_view_v1.png :D Hubert Borderiou, 04/10/2012 16:45
LP_teacher_view_v2.png (35.2 KB) LP_teacher_view_v2.png :s Hubert Borderiou, 04/10/2012 16:45
2012-11-26_1430.png (80.7 KB) 2012-11-26_1430.png Hubert Borderiou, 26/11/2012 14:49
2012-11-26_1449.png (59.3 KB) 2012-11-26_1449.png Hubert Borderiou, 26/11/2012 14:49
Vues.jpg (186 KB) Vues.jpg Alain Deschênes, 28/11/2012 01:21
Gilsser.jpg (118 KB) Gilsser.jpg Alain Deschênes, 28/11/2012 01:56
icon.jpg (16.6 KB) icon.jpg Alain Deschênes, 28/11/2012 15:08

Related issues

Related to Chamilo LMS - Feature #5758: Fonctionnalités perduesRejected - Abandoned24/11/2012

Actions

Associated revisions

Revision 553570a9 (diff)
Added by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

Adding some LP UI changes see #5593

Revision f7fbfa86 (diff)
Added by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

Adding some LP UI changes see #5593

Revision f13358bd (diff)
Added by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

Adding $_configuration['hide_teacher_icons_lp'] see #5593

Revision 12ec50e0 (diff)
Added by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

Fixing breadcrumb links see #5593

Revision 92862c3d (diff)
Added by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

Showing icon in LP authoring see #5593

Revision f2b1a315 (diff)
Added by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

Improving LP UI see #5593

Revision 9567d279 (diff)
Added by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

Fixing LP UI when editing a Chapter see #5593

Revision 05a5163d (diff)
Added by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

Improving LP UI see #5593

Revision bc797636 (diff)
Added by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

Fixing LP link in course home see #5593

History

#3

Updated by Hubert Borderiou almost 9 years ago

In picture try_teacher_view.gif , replace "Teacher view" with "Learner view" in breadcrumb.

#4

Updated by Julio Montoya almost 9 years ago

I agree with most of the changes except for: (Need some feedback to understand the changes):

1. In this page: How you're going to edit the LP settings?

http://support.chamilo.org/attachments/download/3529/2012-10-03_1713.png

Maybe we should add a pencil (edit) icon for all steps (the icon will appear in the over mouse action)?

2. This is a problem in Chamilo not only in the "LP list" so we should take this very carefully, maybe looking for jqgrid or other way plugin?

http://support.chamilo.org/attachments/download/3532/try_LP-list-page.gif

#5

Updated by Hubert Borderiou almost 9 years ago

Thanks for you answer. These are touchy and serious changes for users.

---
1. In this page: How you're going to edit the LP settings?
http://support.chamilo.org/attachments/download/3529/2012-10-03_1713.png
Maybe we should add a pencil (edit) icon for all steps (the icon will appear in the over mouse action)?
---
As far I'm concern, I don't think so.
This page is the student page. I think we shouldn't have to add extra icons on this page. The 2 main pages in LP authoring are one for editing and one for viewing, simple and effective. We know were we are and what we can do. From the student view, If we want to make some change, we go back to the teacher view, clicking on "Teacher View" on the upper right, like in the rest of the interface.

---
2. This is a problem in Chamilo not only in the "LP list" so we should take this very carefully, maybe looking for jqgrid or other way plugin?

http://support.chamilo.org/attachments/download/3532/try_LP-list-page.gif
---
Ok, I think this is not the most important change to make in LP. May be, we can add sort of "more" button at the end of the short icon list, which just unhide the rest of icons. I'm not sure the way to do this. In fact, I think a link in the column title isn't a good idea.
---

My doubt is about the [Leaner view] button which is now the only way to display the LP if we are in the Teacher page. I wonder if we should
- add the [|] view_left_right.png icon in the left of the Audio icon, not sure to like it :s
- add a comment in the top of the edit icons [Documents|Tests|Links|Assignements|Forums|Add section], something like "Click on [Learner view] to display your learning path" (personnally, I prefer this solution)

What do you think ?

#6

Updated by Julio Montoya almost 9 years ago

Hubert Borderiou wrote:

Thanks for you answer. These are touchy and serious changes for users.

---
1. In this page: How you're going to edit the LP settings?
http://support.chamilo.org/attachments/download/3529/2012-10-03_1713.png
Maybe we should add a pencil (edit) icon for all steps (the icon will appear in the over mouse action)?
---
As far I'm concern, I don't think so.
This page is the student page. I think we shouldn't have to add extra icons on this page. The 2 main pages in LP authoring are one for editing and one for viewing, simple and effective. We know were we are and what we can do. From the student view, If we want to make some change, we go back to the teacher view, clicking on "Teacher View" on the upper right, like in the rest of the interface.

Ok I got it, that is the "student view", when a teacher is logged in and he clicks in the new button called "student view". But where's the view of the "real" teacher view?

---
2. This is a problem in Chamilo not only in the "LP list" so we should take this very carefully, maybe looking for jqgrid or other way plugin?

http://support.chamilo.org/attachments/download/3532/try_LP-list-page.gif
---
Ok, I think this is not the most important change to make in LP. May be, we can add sort of "more" button at the end of the short icon list, which just unhide the rest of icons. I'm not sure the way to do this. In fact, I think a link in the column title isn't a good idea.
---

Ok, we should see how other people resolve that problem.

My doubt is about the [Leaner view] button which is now the only way to display the LP if we are in the Teacher page. I wonder if we should
- add the [|] view_left_right.png icon in the left of the Audio icon, not sure to like it :s
- add a comment in the top of the edit icons [Documents|Tests|Links|Assignements|Forums|Add section], something like "Click on [Learner view] to display your learning path" (personnally, I prefer this solution)

What do you think ?

I don't understand a screenshoot is needed :) If you received feedback of your teachers it could be great if they can suggest some changes ...

#7

Updated by Hubert Borderiou almost 9 years ago

Hi,

I don't understand a screenshoot is needed :)

see attached screenshot of options for helping teachers to deal with the new simple interface.

There are files
LP_teacher_view_v1 : add a comment in the top of the edit icons (the one I really prefer)
LP_teacher_view_v2 : add the Display icon (not my favorite)

#8

Updated by Julio Montoya almost 9 years ago

Hubert Borderiou wrote:

Hi,

I don't understand a screenshoot is needed :)

see attached screenshot of options for helping teachers to deal with the new simple interface.

There are files
LP_teacher_view_v1 : add a comment in the top of the edit icons (the one I really prefer)
LP_teacher_view_v2 : add the Display icon (not my favorite)

is more clear, I agree with that change:

http://support.chamilo.org/attachments/download/3537/LP_teacher_view_v1.png

#9

Updated by Yannick Warnier almost 9 years ago

Give me a chance to answer over the week-end before applying changes. At the very least, I think the list of steps in the left column should not have a totally different style for each element than it has in the LP edition page.
I don't think adding the breadcrumb would be idea.
We really have two opposite views here: corporate and academic. Our academic customers focus on having the minimum change (mostly because they build the contents themselves on the basis of HTML), while our corporate users want to see the content full-screen (because they're HTML5/Flash SCORM contents).

#10

Updated by Hubert Borderiou almost 9 years ago

Hi,

At the very least, I think the list of steps in the left column should not have a totally different style for each element than it has in the LP edition page.

I'm not sure to understand what you mean. Do you want to modify the current style of the edition page to look more like the viewing page ? Or to modify the style of the viewing page to look more like the edition page ? If it is it, may be we could have the viewing page more like the edition page, with a tree you can fold/unfold. Jere and I think the edition page is clearer than the viewing page, and teachers told us that the size of char of the viewing page is too big.

I don't think adding the breadcrumb would be idea.

I think it is more or less the same problem you have pointed out, corporate and academic view ? ;-) In an ergonomy point of view, breadcrumb is require, but in corporate point of view, may be not.

We really have two opposite views here: corporate and academic. Our academic customers focus on having the minimum change (mostly because they build the contents themselves on the basis of HTML), while our corporate users want to see the content full-screen (because they're HTML5/Flash SCORM contents).

Yes, good analysis, you've got the point ! How to solve this ?
3 possiblities
- to choise the corporate point of view (but corporate users will be crossed)
- to choise the academic point of view (but academic users will be crossed)
- to add a configuration options to choise the LP style we want to display. (should it be a course option or a plateform option ?)

#11

Updated by Hubert Borderiou over 8 years ago

  • Subject changed from Change learning path ergonomy to GRB - Change learning path ergonomy
  • Category set to Learning paths / Lecciones
  • Priority changed from Normal to High
  • Target version set to 1.9.4
#12

Updated by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Needs testing
  • % Done changed from 0 to 50

I added some changes in the LP teacher view

#13

Updated by Yannick Warnier over 8 years ago

  • Status changed from Needs testing to Assigned
  • Assignee set to Julio Montoya

Julio, these changes in the learning path make other people unhappy (hiding the icons) (see task from Alain). Please make an option as a config file variable. Something like $_configuration['hide_tacher_icons_lp'] = false; so we can decide whether to hide or show them (by default they should be shown as before). In 1.10, we'll add a configuration option in the database for this.

#14

Updated by Yannick Warnier over 8 years ago

The top bar seems to have broken the tracking of simple exercises (I'll have to check that tomorrow)

#15

Updated by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

option added:

$_configuration['hide_teacher_icons_lp']

#16

Updated by Hubert Borderiou over 8 years ago

It's ok if we still have icons and in the authoring page.

#17

Updated by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

  • Status changed from Assigned to Needs testing
  • % Done changed from 50 to 80

I fixed the links in breadcrumb.

Requires testing

#18

Updated by Hubert Borderiou over 8 years ago

When I click on the Document preview, the Edition menu move to the right.
(same problem if you click to edit a document)
See attached

Is it possible to have the one-document-preview in a jqbox, like for test correction, and without any buttons ?
There are several advantage of this :
- the One-Document-Preview box is read-only
- you distinguish the edit interface and the One-Document-Preview View
- the One-Document-Preview view is faster to display
- user know the jqbox which is used in the exercice tool
- it simplify the edit interface, not mixing edition display and one-document-preview box.


If a want to edit a new chapter, I haven't got the editing form, I've got the large and grey menu
with two save buttons, and the form on the top
(see attached)

#19

Updated by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

Hubert Borderiou wrote:

When I click on the Document preview, the Edition menu move to the right.
(same problem if you click to edit a document)
See attached

That's a bug due some changes in the CSS that will be fixed soon.

Is it possible to have the one-document-preview in a jqbox, like for test correction, and without any buttons ?
There are several advantage of this :
- the One-Document-Preview box is read-only
- you distinguish the edit interface and the One-Document-Preview View
- the One-Document-Preview view is faster to display
- user know the jqbox which is used in the exercice tool
- it simplify the edit interface, not mixing edition display and one-document-preview box.

no problem to add that


If a want to edit a new chapter, I haven't got the editing form, I've got the large and grey menu
with two save buttons, and the form on the top
(see attached)

ok that's an error

#20

Updated by Hubert Borderiou over 8 years ago

See here a mindmeister of the Learning Path creation process
http://www.mindmeister.com/fr/231698535/chamilo-lp-root

The {Preview} page doesn't need [Overview|Edit|Settings] buttons (it is a preview page)

On the {Authoring} page, if we click on the [Display] button or on the [Learner view] button we go in the {Preview} page.

On the {Preview} page, if we click on the [Teacher view] or on the [Name of the LP in the breadcrumb] we go to the {Authoring} page.

On the {Authoring}, if we do an action on a LP item (edit, move, prerequisite, add audio ...), when we have finished the action, we go back to the {Authoring} page.

Note : the authoring page is the page with Tools Tab [Documents|Tests|Links|Assignments|Forum|Chapter]

#21

Updated by Yannick Warnier over 8 years ago

Hubert Borderiou wrote:

See here a mindmeister of the Learning Path creation process
http://www.mindmeister.com/fr/231698535/chamilo-lp-root

The {Preview} page doesn't need [Overview|Edit|Settings] buttons (it is a preview page)

Alain Deschènes (#5758) has another view on that :-)

#22

Updated by Hubert Borderiou over 8 years ago

Hi,

I understand the point of view of Alain Deschènes.
We worked with ergonomist teachers of the Universite de Grenoble, especially on the learning Path interface.
I'll try to explain the conclusion of our ergonomist teachers.

THE AUTHORING (EDIT) window

We have problem of inconsistency with the other tools.
1.The edit button is new in the Chamilo interface. It should be which is the "official" Chamilo edit button in the whole Chamilo interface.
Moreover, if we are in the Authoring page, the Edit page, we shouldn't view the Edit button, because it is the page where we are. (like in the others Chamilo tools when we are in the Edit mode, we don't see the pencil, but the Preview button, e.g. the Tests interface).

2.The display button in LP is and it should be which is the official Chamilo preview button.

=> As a result, buttons in the Learning Path Chamilo Authoring page should be :

[Preview][Audio][Settings]

We don't need the [Edit] button beacause when we work in the Authoring window, we stay in the Authoring window, see the MindMap.


THE PREVIEW WINDOW
When we are in the preview window, the Preview must be... a Preview ;-) (like in other Chamilo tools) It is a bad thing to combine a Preview with Authoring buttons. (It's not my point of view, it is ergonomist's one).
What we want is to keep a hight window for the Learning Path page, without the full Chamilo Header, and to show the teacher how to go back to the Authoring Page.

Lets do it like in the other Chamilo interface. We can add the Edit button, to go back to the Edit interface (and the Teacher button must be on). See bellow, it is logical, consistent, obvious and ergonomic.

regards,

Pour info :

Tiré du livre
"Ergonomie du logiciel et du design web"

"
L'utilisateur moyen n'existe pas

Nous avons tous connu ces réunions épiques où chaque membre de l'équipe
défend âprement son point de vue sans qu'aucun n'emporte l'adhésion des autres
[Krug 01]

En général, personne n'a véritablement tort ou raison. Dans ce domaine, il
n'existe pas de vérité absolue, et donc aucune solution toute faite, ni recette qui
permettrait de réaliser le meilleur design. On assiste donc à des joutes idéologiques
où chacun y va de son sentiment, de sa " croyance ", sans qu'aucun élément
factuel ne vienne étayer le propos.

Ces discussions stériles sont une perte de temps et une source de conflit dans
les équipes. Combien en sont sortis fâchés que leur point de vue n'ait pas été
retenu ? Et lorsqu'au final, le chef de projet a tranché pour l'une ou l'autre des
solutions débattues, combien s'en sont sentis frustrés qu'on ne les ait pas écoutés ?
Mais pourquoi les réunions d'avancement ressemblent-elles plus à des débats
politiques qu'à des réunions de projet ? La raison en est simple : nous sommes tous
des utilisateurs. De ce fait, nous avons naturellement tendance à penser que tous
les utilisateurs nous ressemblent et donc qu'ils apprécient le web de la même façon
que nous. Chacun est persuadé d'avoir raison et de détenir la vérité puisqu'il est
lui-même un utilisateur.

Certains vont jusqu'à évoquer l'existence d'un " utilisateur moyen " ! En effet,
partant du principe que les utilisateurs sont des individus comme vous et moi,
l'utilisateur moyen serait une sorte d'être humain standard, un individu à la fois
comme vous et moi. Dès lors pour concevoir correctement un site, il suffirait de
connaître ce que cet utilisateur aime ou n'aime pas.
Malheureusement, c'est un mythe ! Il n'existe pas d'utilisateur moyen. Nous
sommes tous différents et chacune de nos expériences en tant qu'utilisateur est
unique.

Dans l'absolu, il n'y a pas de bon site web. L'utilisabilité du site dépend à la
fois de l'utilisateur et du contexte dans lequel il s'en sert. Il n'existe pas de design
" prêt à porter " chaque solution est unique et doit être conçue " sur-mesure ".
C 'est l'objectif de la démarche ergonomique de conception que d'adapter le
site à son utilisateur et au contexte dans lequel il est conduit à le visiter. Elle
consiste dans un premier temps à déterminer précisément le contexte d'utilisation,
c'est à dire cibler le site en déterminant le couple " utilisateur-utilisation " : Quel
est l'utilisateur visé ? Que cherche-t-il à faire sur le site ?
"

#23

Updated by Hubert Borderiou over 8 years ago

When editing a document in a LP, the LP menu goes to the right.

#24

Updated by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

Hubert Borderiou wrote:

When editing a document in a LP, the LP menu goes to the right.

That's an issue due some changes in the bootstrap core that will be removed

#25

Updated by Alain Deschênes over 8 years ago

OK, à mon tour !

Je suis dans l'ensemble en accord avec les propositions d'Hubert.

Dans cet esprit, je simplifierais un peu plus l'interface...

Je sais, je me contredis un peu (#5758), mais seuls les fous ne changent pas d'idées ;-)

#26

Updated by Alain Deschênes over 8 years ago

Du même coup, les choses évoluent pour le mieux.

#27

Updated by Yannick Warnier over 8 years ago

Les francophones, vous m'épatez. C'est tellement agréable de travailler avec des gens qui savent travailler ensemble et trouver des (très bons) compromis sans même se connaître!

#28

Updated by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

  • Assignee deleted (Julio Montoya)
  • % Done changed from 80 to 70

I added most of the changes, but I don't agree with adding the pencil icon in the breadcrumb, I think the breadcrumb is not the place to add icons, I could add another yellow button next to the "Vue prof" ...

#29

Updated by Alain Deschênes over 8 years ago

I've just tried it and it looks good.

I'm in agreement with you Julio, I think we haven't needed an icon on the breadcrumb. I prefer to keep as simple as possible and in the same time, functional.

One of the last thing to do is to put the text -> ClickOnTheLearnerViewToSeeYourLearningPath as a variable for translation.

Finaly, I'm thinking about the idea to put some icons on the side of item into the LP... Should be a good idea ?

#30

Updated by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

je viens d'envoyer ClickOnTheLearnerViewToSeeYourLearningPath dans translate.chamilo.org

#31

Updated by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

  • Status changed from Needs testing to Needs more info
  • % Done changed from 70 to 90
#32

Updated by Hubert Borderiou over 8 years ago

There is a side effect about viewing the LP as a true Learner View.
If the Learning Path is hidden, the teacher cannot view it, you have the message "Désolé, vous n'êtes pas autorisé à accéder à cette page, ou votre connexion a expiré. Veuillez cliquez sur le bouton "Précédent" de votre navigateur ou suivre le lien ci-dessous pour retourner à la page précédente."
because you want to see it as a Learner.
May be the LP view can be a "false" learner view, you just display the LP, but don't heritate of all the Learner View properties.

#33

Updated by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

  • Status changed from Needs more info to Needs testing

I sent a fix for that

#34

Updated by Hubert Borderiou over 8 years ago

Hi, another side effect.
When a teacher click on the Learning Path from the main course page (not from the Learning Path tool) he goes in the Builder page not in the preview page, and he got the VueProf on.

#35

Updated by Hubert Borderiou over 8 years ago

  • Status changed from Needs testing to Needs more info
#36

Updated by Yannick Warnier over 8 years ago

  • Status changed from Needs more info to Assigned
  • Assignee set to Julio Montoya
#37

Updated by Julio Montoya over 8 years ago

  • Status changed from Assigned to Needs testing
  • Assignee deleted (Julio Montoya)

Hubert Borderiou wrote:

Hi, another side effect.
When a teacher click on the Learning Path from the main course page (not from the Learning Path tool) he goes in the Builder page not in the preview page, and he got the VueProf on.

I sent a fix for that

#38

Updated by Hubert Borderiou over 8 years ago

If we want to keep the previous behaviour, we should go to the preview page when clicking on a LP on the main course pag, if we are a teacher

he goes in the Builder page not in the preview page

#39

Updated by Yannick Warnier over 8 years ago

  • Status changed from Needs testing to Needs more info

So... are we good on this one? Could we close it for 1.9.4 as it is and continue in another task if anything has to be added?

#40

Updated by Yannick Warnier over 8 years ago

  • Status changed from Needs more info to Feature implemented
  • Assignee set to Julio Montoya

Well... closing for lack of feedback. We've made great improvements on this one. Thank you guys. If you continue, please open a new task like "Change learning path ergonomy - extension pack" or something like that.

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