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irc log for things already discussed on this topic - Nathalie Blocry, 10/03/2011 14:18

 
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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><title>Conversation with #chamilo at Wed 09 Mar 2011 09:49:54 AM CET on NathalieB@barjavel.freenode.net (irc)</title></head><body><h3>Conversation with #chamilo at Wed 09 Mar 2011 09:49:54 AM CET on NathalieB@barjavel.freenode.net (irc)</h3>
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<font size="2">(09:49:54 AM)</font><b> The topic for #chamilo is: Welcome to Chamilo</b><br/>
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<font size="2">(10:35:26 AM)</font><b> jmontoya [<em>~jmontoya@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-48-229.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr</em>] entered the room.</b><br/>
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<font size="2">(10:50:25 AM)</font><b> Anto [<em>~Anto@d252f.ipm.ucl.ac.be</em>] entered the room.</b><br/>
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<font size="2">(10:53:01 AM)</font><b> laurent1 [<em>~lopprecht@lopp.unige.ch</em>] entered the room.</b><br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(10:57:09 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> quick question<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(10:57:24 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> file admin/install/admin_installer line 102<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(10:57:47 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> there is an variable $xml_data[&apos;english&apos;]<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(10:57:53 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> which comes from nowhere<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(10:58:06 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> but obviously the install works<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(10:58:13 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> can someone help me on this variable ?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(10:59:22 AM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I would guess it should have been $package_info[&apos;package&apos;][&apos;extra&apos;][&apos;english&apos;]<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(10:59:46 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> ok thanks<br/>
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<font size="2">(11:00:45 AM)</font><b> THLU left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 255 seconds).</b><br/>
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<font size="2">(11:04:48 AM)</font><b> THLU [<em>~Ludwig@78-21-248-123.access.telenet.be</em>] entered the room.</b><br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:05:41 AM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> laurent1: I see various issues on the support website but with no version .. is it possible to add a version to them?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:09:26 AM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> like which version of Chamilo we target?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:09:32 AM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> sure<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:09:53 AM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> If I don&apos;t take ownership of an issue I usually leave it blank<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:10:08 AM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> but anybody is welcomed to modify those<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:12:00 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> if you&apos;re ok I will remove the automatic testsuite I&apos;m writing for installer from the core-testsuite, because I&apos;m pretty everybody consider that the test should run on an installed system<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:13:31 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Systh0: Note that the installer is rather broken; it inserts stuff in nonexisting tables at some point. I fixed those things in my postgres work<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:13:52 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I know it is not broken<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:14:03 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I&apos;m just trying to prove it with a testsuite<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:14:27 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> It _is_ broken, unless this has been fixed independently<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:14:34 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> AFAIK my changes haven&apos;t been integrated<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:14:43 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> and after that i&apos;ll be able to refactor it so that we can easily make cli install (and I know cli install has already been written but it is a bit broken at the moment)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:15:18 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> I believe it&apos;s the admin app which registers itself at the point when there is no application registry table yet<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:15:34 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Not sure on the specifics anymore<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:16:07 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> It doesn&apos;t fail because mysql/mdb2 is set to ignore errors (even ones as serious as that)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:16:14 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> mmmhhh i haven&apos;t got any exception but on the other hand I have partially silenced mdb2 ...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:16:24 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> It doesn&apos;t throw exceptions.<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:16:42 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Look at the code; errors are ignored or the code just returns false, but the calling code doesn&apos;t do anything with that<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:16:50 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> mmmhhhh<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:16:52 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> I refactored the Database class to throw exceptions in a lot of places<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:17:01 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I&apos;ll check that when I&apos;ll do the refactoring<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:17:04 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> That&apos;s why my change causes so much breakage<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:17:08 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> for now I focus on the tests<br/>
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<font color="#062585"><font size="2">(11:17:18 AM)</font> <b>***sjamaan</b></font> shrugs<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:17:28 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Fine with me<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:17:35 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> If you don&apos;t mind failing tests...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:17:37 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> then when you will commit your changes my tests will fail because of you<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:17:49 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> and we&apos;ll see the problems more accurately<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:18:00 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I do mind failing tests<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:18:04 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> But please be careful not to write tests that check for the current wrong behaviour as if it was the correct one<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:18:08 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> this is why I write them ;)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:18:24 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> |11:16| ( Systh0) then when you will commit your changes my tests will fail because of you<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:18:30 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> No, the tests should fail today<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:18:41 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> After my changes are committed, they should pass<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:19:01 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I understand your pov<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:19:06 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Like I said, the table doesn&apos;t exist; the admin (or some similar core) app isn&apos;t registered<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:19:11 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> but I don&apos;t have the time to do all the tests right now<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:19:16 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> That&apos;s wrong, and your test should flag it<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:19:28 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> so I focus on the big integration tests<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:19:39 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> but eventually there will be more accurate tests<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:20:08 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> right now I have planned test for application registration<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:20:18 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> but I&apos;ll leave a todo ;)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:21:14 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> but anyway I don&apos;t understand why your changes haven&apos;t been comitted yet<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:21:33 AM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> wasn&apos;t that planned for last week or the week before ?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:21:52 AM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> I don&apos;t know. I suppose Svennie has been busy with other stuff or something<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:26:13 AM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> We&apos;ve all been very busy I&apos;m afraid<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:26:49 AM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> not to mention that I had to take up all leftover vacation-days :-(<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(11:46:06 AM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> Hi Hans, about the mail from Koen: I don't think it is the idea to do feature requests to be implemented right a way. For now it is about making changes to the existing applications based on usability tests and stuff.<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(11:46:21 AM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> there is currently no procedure for that<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(11:47:01 AM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> for instance: we have been making some changes on requests from Cynthia and Yana etc. and implemented them on our platform.<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(11:48:07 AM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> we could implement them in the chamilo code aswell, but there has to be some kind of a system because if everybody starts changing things it will become chaotic. I change something, somebody else changes it back, someone else changes it again --&gt; not good!<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:48:35 AM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> it&apos;s true that we could use some procedures for those things, but that doesn&apos;t change the fact that most change requests right now are nothing but requests with no one (or almost no one) available to actually fill them<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(11:48:42 AM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> so for now we implement them locally what has some people complaining everywhere that we are &quot;forking&quot;<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(11:49:42 AM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> for us the situation is different because we can comply to cynthia's requests (only the reasonalbe ones). the question is only: where<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:50:18 AM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I guess it all depends on the location AND who is willing to be responsible for which package<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:50:52 AM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> and even then it all comes down to priorities :)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(11:54:25 AM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> yes ok, but this is a very practical situation we are in. Our pedagoges WANT/NEED/WHATEVER certain changes to be made in the weblcms so we WILL be making them. question is only: where. I see Laurent is also making changes to the weblcms and since HoGent is going live they will also be making changes. everything without discussing anything for the moment. this will lead to problems<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:56:06 AM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I guess the first step would be that the pedagoges of different institutions &quot;get along&quot;<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(11:57:01 AM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> I think Cynthia and Liesbeth get along fine :-)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(11:57:25 AM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> I don't know if you have pedagoges at EHB who are involved?<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(11:57:48 AM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> from HoGent we have never seen anybody. I think Cynthia has contacted them.<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(11:58:05 AM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> Geneva I don't know only saw the 2 developers<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:58:41 AM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> if and when input is needed I&apos;m sure someone on our side will provide it ... I have a strict: &quot;no change if it can screw things up for anyone else&quot; policy internally<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(11:59:27 AM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> but the weblcms is low priority for us right now and even when we launch it, it&apos;s less problematic in terms of changes being demanded<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(11:59:36 AM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> can i quote you on that because if we put that up on the wall here, I'm sure everybody will laugh everytime they pass it<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:00:09 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> feel free<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:00:47 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> the root of the problem is that we as developers are being forced to solve problems which we didn&apos;t create to begin with<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:02:21 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> and practically speaking the weblcms is of course the most obvious place where such things are being noticed ... because that&apos;s the thing everyone needs / wants / ...<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(12:04:56 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> yes offcourse, the problems will always exist primarily in applications like that. But it doesn't change the fact that it is or soon will be creating problems.<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:06:19 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> there are other obstacles as well, but I&apos;m not all that in comfortable in discussing those in here :)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(12:06:20 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> So now I have 2 options: 1) I just make the changes we want in the chamilo repository 2) I just make the changes we want in our VUB repositories.<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(12:08:04 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> We will hopefully have time to discuss this during the codesprint. we should use the time to really discuss things instead of just sitting fixing bugs next to each other (you can do that any time).<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:08:35 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I agree 100%, that&apos;s why the agenda is so extensive and versatile<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:08:57 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> a lot of things which we need to come to some kind of agreement on<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(12:10:02 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> we can come 2 full days and on thursday we can come only in the morning (have another meeting in Gent at 2pm) so maybe we can also make an ordered list (in terms of importance) of the things we really have to discuss. <br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(12:10:24 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> priorities will be different for everybody I guess. for us anonymous user is priority nr1<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:10:43 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> it&apos;s in the top half for us as well<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:11:26 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> if you have any other topics you want to discuss and which are *not* on the list, please send them over and I can add them<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:12:04 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> hope to write down some more info and basic ideas for each topic before the code sprint as well, so people can already have a look at it beforehand<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(12:12:42 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> OK, good idea! I will try to do that if I find the time (I havent written one line of code in the last 3 weeks I think)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:13:14 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> sadly enough, I know the feeling :)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(12:14:05 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> for the metadate/contextlinker integration it is a matter of finding the time and figuring out how to do it in the current repository-labyrinth. there are also a lot of usability issues there. everything work I think, but UI should be tweaked a lot<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:14:31 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I probably have some good news for you on that ;-)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(12:15:13 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> you are going to do it ? :-D<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:15:37 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> in short: probably (and there&apos;s obviously more to it then that)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(12:15:54 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> has your project been accepted?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:16:05 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> yup, it has been<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(12:17:18 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> good news! Can you keep Jens posted on that, because he and Bruno would also much more like to use OpenSource software for that, instead of the commercial stuff we are piloting with now<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(12:18:04 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> going for a sandwich ... hear you later!<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:18:09 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> laterz :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:44:16 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: strange idea that you never seen anybody (pedagoges) from HoGent ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:46:22 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Jean-Marie has that role in our institution/chamilo project<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:47:27 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> but I follow you when you say more communication is needed for adjustments required in the several organizations ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:48:00 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> this is stuff for a dev meeting of course .. where all parties bring there feedback from their own users and we try to find a compromis about a solution<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:48:33 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> at the moment laurent1 and sven/pj are indeed implementing changes in several applications ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:48:54 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> this is for me ok as long as there is enough communication<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:52:49 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> about the &apos;forking&apos; .. I warned you several weeks ago that it could become a possible thread that VUB would fork if you did not communicate about the requests for changes<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(12:53:10 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> up till now i haven&apos;t seen any of these request appear on this channel of support website ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:31:14 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> I think it would be good if people could add their wishes to redmine<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:31:38 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> not that they will be all implemented but at least this gives some visibility on what is going on<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:31:44 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> for weblcms<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:31:58 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> I see right now many changes/modifications/etc<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:32:25 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> I am wondering if it would be better to take a templated approach<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:32:32 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> for example<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:32:36 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> hi laurent :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:32:42 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> cheers Sven<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:32:46 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> I think its also very good<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:32:46 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> for example<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:33:07 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> create php hmtl template called type A<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:33:19 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> another called type B<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:33:31 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> let&apos;s development do this part of the work<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:33:38 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> and add new templates if required<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:33:50 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> then just select the template you want when you create a course<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:33:54 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> because right now<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:34:15 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> I tend to have too many changes to incorporate all of that in the UI<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:34:20 PM)</font> <b>laurent1:</b></font> just a thought so<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:39:06 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> Systho is the installer broken now?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:39:08 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> on the dev?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:41:32 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> it depends what you mean by broken ;)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:42:17 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> it works as good as 1 month ago but sjamaan has found some bugs in it and I have found others<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:43:04 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> sjamaan had fixed them in his work but since hi work hasn&apos;t been comitted yet, it&apos;s hard to tell which ones are remaining<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:47:43 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> my students claim the installer doesn&apos;t run anymore<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:47:46 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> with latest dev code<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:48:48 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> ???<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:49:05 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I have just added stuff, I have modified or removed anything<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:49:09 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> let me re-check<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:51:46 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> np<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:51:54 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> could be another issue<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:52:00 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> not related to your changes<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:52:19 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I haven&apos;t even pushed my changes to install actually :p<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:52:40 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> may I know what the breakage is ?<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(01:52:46 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> i was gone for a moment but afaik jean-marie was technical and not pedagogical. sorry if that is not true, that was not clear then. you do have a whole &quot;pegagogical cell&quot; with people who are not involved no?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:53:39 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: besides JM there is 1 other person<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:53:54 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> with other responsabilities inside our organisation<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:54:41 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> Svennie : I&apos;ve just reviewed my changes and it should definitely not have broken anything<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:54:45 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> ok<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(01:54:47 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> and about the forking. You find it a problem but there are only 2 possibilities now: change it on the common repository without taken into account needs of others as is happening now (with the risk that someone else will again change &quot;your&quot; functionality) OR change it on our own repository. <br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:54:48 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> thanks systho<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:54:51 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> i will check with my students :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:55:02 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> but I&apos;m currently working on install app so pleasse tell me before pushing anything<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(01:55:09 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> and we don't have a problem with the &quot;forking&quot; we are forced to do, you do<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:55:49 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> NathalieB1: if you would add all these issues to the support website we could discuss them<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:56:03 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and then you could push them to the official repositories<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:56:15 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and there would at least be a place where it is possible to discuss issues about some implementations etc<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:56:35 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> i already had such a small discussion with laurent1 about a usability issue<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(01:56:43 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> there is never anything discussed on the support website<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:56:57 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and the solution was that we will create a setting which makes both solutions possible<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(01:57:38 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> yes you and laurent have discussed it. that is the problem exactly. there are more parties envolved<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:57:45 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> then you should join<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:57:53 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> the support website is the best place to discuss such things<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:58:00 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> but you need to put time in it<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:58:07 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> best place is dev meetings :-)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(01:58:15 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> yes I will spend my whole day reading everything that was posted on the support website and on the chat, good idea<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:58:38 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> we need to do the same if we want to stay in touch with the latest changes / plans<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(01:58:58 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> yes best place is dev meetings. or not... because last time we spent half a day discussing the repositories and the actual implementation is quite something else<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(01:59:19 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> but at least there are some people who use a channel like this, a support website, a dev email or whatever to announce their specific plans<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:01:04 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> If a technical solution can not be met due to practical limits then the people involved are forced to use other ways, we discussed it with the people who were actively trying to change the repositories and announced the changes to the people who had no time available for joining with setting up the repositories<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:01:04 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> Ok I will do it the chamilo way and post on the support website when I have made changes. then you can discuss it all you want and I won't take into account anything you say. fine by me<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:02:13 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: do you have the feeling that your suggestions aren&apos;t taken into account right now? because your reaction is pointing that way ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:02:52 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> idea is to propose changes first, discuss them (find consensus if necessary) and then implement<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:03:51 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> frankly, i have seen nothing of this &quot;idea&quot; in the last year<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:04:29 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> but no point discussing it, you all seem to think everything is great the way it is. it must be just me then<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:05:07 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: the idea should become routine with every request for change<br/>
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<font color="#062585"><font size="2">(02:05:40 PM)</font> <b>***ScaraMcDuck</b></font> just spent the last 5 minutes catching up with what was posted in here ... the irony ...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:06:14 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> we are a very small community .. if we aren&apos;t able to communicate with 10 people .. with if 20 new people (and wishes/plans) join<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:06:18 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> one small thing I would like to add: it is not easy to stay up to date with all that&apos;s being posted on the support website<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:06:44 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: that&apos;s true, because it doesn&apos;t match our bitbucket structure and development process anymore<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:06:59 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> there is no &apos;next&apos; release anymore<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:07:07 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> that&apos;s not why I say it<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:07:25 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> explain<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:07:31 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> simply because it&apos;s too much and things get forgotten, it&apos;s impossible to distinguish important from trivial<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:07:53 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> at any rate: things get missed that way<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:08:08 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> not too mention I regularly get interrupted when I want to catch up<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:08:18 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> which is (usually) not the case with a face to face meeting<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:09:31 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I&apos;d like to add something<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:09:43 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> since the whole idea of the bb structure is to make package<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:10:02 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> the communication and stay up-t-date shouldn&apos;t be global anymore<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:10:22 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> people involved in a subset of packages should be aware of those packages only<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:10:36 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> of course there is still the core packages  +  weblcms<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:10:53 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> weblcms aka the root of all evil<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:11:00 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> but maybe that whould allow people concerned about those package to not be aware of other packages<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:11:12 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> At least this is my idea<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:11:26 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I try to stay in touch with the core (not even with weblcms)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:11:31 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> we could create subprojects inside the 2.0 root project<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:11:35 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> and with my own packages<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:11:42 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> core<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:11:47 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> weblcms<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:11:51 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> optional packages<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:11:52 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> valid point systho<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:12:18 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> it would clarify all the issues we have right now<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:12:19 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> makes it a lot easier to find issues or discussions on a certain topic<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:13:23 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> it&apos;s not perfect ... but then again we are humain and flawed by design ;-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:13:24 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> but the issue remains .. if you want to be up to date of the entire project .. it requires a lot of reading :-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:13:25 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> and optionally a sub project for any packages / set of packages whose authors ask for it (I&apos;m not sure this is valid english)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:13:40 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Systh0: indeed ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:13:59 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> Kariboe : yes but maybe it because it is not a good idea to stay in touch with the entire projet<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:14:15 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> that was my point that our support workflow is not the same anymore as the dev workflow<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:14:34 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Systh0: its your own choice of course what you want to follow<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:14:54 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> just for information: the bitbucket has issue tracking per package<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:14:57 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> What if you see Chamilo core as windows and every package as windows-based application (I mean the ones like wordpad etc)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:15:19 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> i&apos;d rather have chamilo to be linux :P<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:15:20 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> do you really think there are people aware of all the subproject of windows ?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:15:39 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> I understand what you mean :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:15:56 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> about the staying up to date: I don&apos;t follow everything either, but right now because of the structure it&apos;s hard to filter out those things right now<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:16:03 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> Svennie :  yes but linux is n&apos;t as monolithic as windows , my point would have been harder to demonstrate<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:16:10 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> or to look up something which you get interested in for that matter<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:16:33 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> for example .. the external repositories project there is at this moment already<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:16:43 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> But you must realise Systh0 that when people follow the weblcms, they follow almost 75% of the packages<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:16:59 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> because many applications in chamilo are actually just publication wrappers around content objects and complex displays<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:17:09 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> don&apos;t know if this will answer some of the questions/remarks that NathalieB1 has<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:17:15 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck : afaic the rss/atom feed is quite good<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:17:41 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> @systho: on bitbucket or redmine ?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:17:48 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> bb<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:17:56 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> then I agree :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:18:05 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I don&apos;t follow redmine at all (shame on me)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:18:10 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I was talking about all the different support issues on redmine :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:18:20 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> Systh0: i receive emails of every new feature<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:18:32 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and i skim and scan all my emails to see if something relevant shows up<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:18:33 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> there&apos;s lots of interesting thing going on in there but tempus fugit :(<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:18:42 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> I receive mails on all projects .. all issues ..  :-):-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:18:48 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> even from the 1.8 project<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:19:03 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> there is some interesting stuff coming along over there ;-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:19:06 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> mmmhhh<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:19:18 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> o I understand why you need a new structure for support<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:19:39 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I go though all the mails .. but don&apos;t always have time to formulate or write down any ideas I have on the subject at that moment<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:20:32 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> then maybe use redmine for the big stuff (core - weblcms - structural design - huge refactor ) and bb tracker for day-to-day business (bugs, features, etc)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:21:30 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> redmine can then become the electronic support for the dev meeting<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:21:34 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Systh0: not a good idea to spread issues over 2 systems<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:21:38 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> and bb tracker for code srpint<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:21:55 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> and if someone has ANY kind of issue with ANYTHING: please, PLEASE let us know ... electronic communication has a certain inherent lag ... so just phone, mail or IM someone instead of not saying anything<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:21:55 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> keep in mind that we have still a 1.8 team too<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:22:06 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> 1.what ?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:22:09 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> ;-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:22:17 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> Kariboe : i don&apos;t agree, from my pov : every packages should manages its issues<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:22:37 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Systh0: right ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:22:43 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> The problem is only there when there are issues over multiple packages<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:22:45 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> but we don&apos;t have to use 2 systems for it<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:22:56 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I remember discussing this with &quot;someone&quot; before<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:22:57 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and also we should need a very very good moderator who knows the system very good<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:22:57 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> we could create as many project in redmine as we have applications<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:23:13 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> because testers / users tend to post bugs in the wrong category very often<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:23:22 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> I am not talking about well defined issues only related to specific classes/packages/tools/...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:23:37 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> there&apos;s a lot of &quot;grey&quot; area<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:23:40 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: explain :-)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:23:44 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> I am talking about general idea's, directions to move in, usability, ...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:24:01 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> for me that is stuff to discuss on dev meetings<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:24:08 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> live meetings ..<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:24:09 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> non-technical stuff. there is nowhere to discuss things like this and for people to follow up on this<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:24:18 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> forum....<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:24:19 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> not all people envolved are developers<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:24:40 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> live meetings ... this way you limit the input to belgian people<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:24:42 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> so we need some kind of pseudo-dev meetings<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:24:46 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> there is a forum enabled now inside the 2.0 project<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:25:00 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> the chamilo forum just S*CKS bigtime!<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:25:12 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> we have multiple communication channels<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:25:17 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> not the one in the platform (afaik) the one on the site<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:25:17 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: you&apos;re free to suggest an alternative<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:25:18 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> but you need to choose one<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:25:19 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I really think there should be a central place for discussing technical and non technical CENTRAL issues, and lots of specifi trackers linked to their respective package<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:25:48 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: the website is going to be reworked this month<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:26:10 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> yes to attracked more &quot;customers&quot; and &quot;cients&quot;... I don't care one bit about that<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:26:15 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> clients<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:26:34 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> If I summarize your remarks: you don&apos;t want live meeting because its limited to belgian people, no forum because not usable, no support website because too technical ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:26:53 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> no irc because no time to follow ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:27:37 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I know what we need: a full time Chamilo 2 office manager ... preferably female, about 26 and manages to tolerate me ... win-win for everyone (particularly me)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:27:39 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> If you can point us towards a better tool .. feel free<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:27:53 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> preferably ??<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:27:57 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> LOL<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:27:58 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> wel isn't chamilo supposed to be a collaboration tool!?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:28:06 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> if not I don&apos;t really care ;-)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:28:27 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> and i don't say I don't want a forum. i don't want the drupal-thing that is pretending to be a forum<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:28:32 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> It is a collection of tools: forum, wiki ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:28:38 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> IIRC there&apos;s bbforum integration for drupal<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:28:43 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> the chamilo.org website is only a commercial tool (and not a very usefull one)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:28:55 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> there is a forum on the support website<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:28:56 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> But someone would need to look into setting it up, which probably nobody wants to do/has time for<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:29:10 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> we are now paying a company to update the website<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:29:12 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> :-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:29:24 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> oh nice. Tell them to install a better forum then ;)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:29:29 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> we did<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:29:44 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> And they didn&apos;t? ;)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:29:47 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> the redmine bugtracker has a specific use: post bugs and feature request. but not workable if you want a bigger community to be involved<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:29:55 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> didn&apos;t we agree on a preivous meeting that it was a good idea to setup a forum on support website ?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:29:57 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> why not<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:30:01 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> very easy to link to the issues<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:30:05 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> because it&apos;s all in the same software<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:30:16 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> that&apos;s a great feature<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:30:26 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> and irc is just plain stupid to discuss important things since not everybody will be online at that exact moment and everything discussed is just lost.<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:30:37 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> tickets are very weak compared to topics for discussing big stuff<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:30:47 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> you could install channel logging, but it sucks to go through chat logs<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:30:47 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> i know open the irc each morning to have a log to go through when I have time. but it's just silly like this<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:30:52 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> we have discussed this on last dev meeting and EVERYONE agreed with us that we would do a friday dev meeting<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:30:54 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> *now<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:30:55 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> and nontechnical people are mor used to forums<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:31:04 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Svennie: I think the friday dev meeting is good<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:31:07 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> all the important issues from the entire week that came up on irc are discussed every friday<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:31:09 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> euh: http://support.chamilo.org/projects/chamilo-20/boards<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:31:20 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> IMO the dev mailinglist is underused<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:31:37 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> ow .. we have a mailing lists too ;-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:31:39 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> That&apos;s the right place to have technical discussions; it&apos;s archived and everyone can catch up in their own time<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:31:39 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> yeah and see how well things get answered there, Kariboe<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:32:08 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> If you have a decent mailclient, you also get threading which means you can follow what you find interesting and ignore other things, which is hard to do on IRC<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:32:32 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> I was too busy reading all the support issues :-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:32:45 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> what I really, REALLY need is decent voice recognition ... it takes a lot of time tro write out a well structured decent mail about an issue<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:33:39 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> that office manager you requested ;-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:34:13 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> if we would need to put everything on the mailing list then me and hans would be sending mails all day long and we wouldn&apos;t write a single line of code anymore<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:34:22 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and as you have said before<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:34:36 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> many emails sent by us do not receive any answer<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:35:11 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> we&apos;d rather use channels where we at least get some feedback, otherwise it seems more like a press conference where me and hans are the press officers<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:35:22 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> small question: does everyone actually get those mails on the dev-list<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:35:23 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Svennie: Not doing so might work now but if the community grows you&apos;d be shutting out a lot of people from the discussion<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:35:36 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> press officers are better payed then I am ... quite sure of that ...<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:35:44 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> *might work now* -&gt; does not work now<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:36:03 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> sjamaan: if there would be more interacction on the dev list i would be happy to sent all my comments there<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:36:09 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> emails are good for quick question-answer or announcements but not for discussion<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:36:10 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: What mails specifically?  I get mail from dev...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:36:17 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> but it seems that people are quite afraid to give there opinion when going through the mailing list<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:36:29 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Svennie: afraid or disinterested, that depends<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:36:35 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> nothing specifically, but I&apos;ve gotten reports in the past that people did not get certain things<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:36:42 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Some threads get replies, others don&apos;t<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:36:48 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> if it would be disintrested then we wouldn&apos;t get any reply&apos;s on the support / irc neither ;)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:36:55 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I personnaly categorized by emails betwwen those which I can&apos;t answer in less than 5 minutes (and I answer to these) and the other ones which are lots in the vacuum of my hard drive<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:36:58 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> I remeber the time I posted questions on the dev list and I got messages via facebook telling me to pick up the phone... so I stopped using the devlist<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:37:02 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: That sounds like maybe a misconfiguration of the list software<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:37:14 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> NathalieB1: Jeez, how convoluted ;)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:37:28 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> @systho: with over 200 mails that all becomes relative :p<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:37:34 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> *200 a day<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:37:48 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: If that happens, you need to split up the lists<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:37:53 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> so .. can we summarize this discussion :-)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:38:06 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> sjamaan: had to look up covoluted ;-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:38:08 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Look at large, successful projects; they have several lists<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:38:11 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> +1 sjamaan<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:38:13 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> If would like to make some adjustments if needed<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:39:01 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> You could have a core list, a generic questions list, and specific lists for larger app subprojects<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:39:20 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> oh please no<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:39:30 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> at this point there are to few active users<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:39:30 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> haha .. first suggestion :-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:39:30 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> don&apos;t use email for discussion ,  please please please<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:39:38 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> to seperate it into multiple lists<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:39:40 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Systh0: Why the hell not?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:39:51 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> forums are much better tools for discussing<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:39:56 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Svennie: I was responding to ScaraMcDuck&apos;s worry that you&apos;d get too many posts per day<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:40:11 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> i don&apos;t think he means that with his 200 emails<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:40:16 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> anyway if someone receives  200 mails a day , he will still receives them if he follow  multiples lists....<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:40:18 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> i think there are a lot of automated scripts there also :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:40:26 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Systh0: I strongly disagree. Threaded mailclients are much more efficient in filtering, searching and sorting threads<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:40:33 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> I would prefer a good forum or even a workspace like in chamilo to too many devlists<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:40:34 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> forum software generally sucks<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:40:49 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> They only offer limited searching or filtering capabilities<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:40:57 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I have an idea: I could spend some time posting things on the forum, on mailing lists, on the support website ... and hey ... while I&apos;m at it, why not Facebook as well ? (just being sarcastic now)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:41:08 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Not helpful, ScaraMcDuck<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:41:12 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> but a devlist can be very usefull if it is used. we just need to pick 1 main channel<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:41:12 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: don&apos;t forget Twitter<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:41:29 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> NathalieB1: Agreed. And it should be a channel open to anyone<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:41:37 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> @sjamaan: that has been my general feeling for quite a while about quite a lot of things<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:41:41 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> for me: the main community channel is the redmine<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:41:46 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> can we do the following : setup a forum and register the rss of the most important sub forum to the mailing list ?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:41:46 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> So not face to face or timezone-bound (and I guess that rules out IRC too)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:41:53 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> and also user-friendly to not so technical people if possible<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:43:00 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: the redmine is not that &apos;technical&apos; that non-developers can&apos;t post issues on it  . .. or is it?<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:43:05 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> IRC can be good for quick discussions. but if the topic is importent, the log should be posted somewhere. or a summary of what was discussed and what the different points of view were and the actual descicion<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:43:23 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> i think it is<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:43:26 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> each way of communication has it own tool ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:43:27 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> (beginning by this discussion )<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:43:49 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: strange, because our HoGent staff is using right now to post chamilo 2.0 issues<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:44:17 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> we did explain it to them of course :-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:44:27 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> I think it&apos;s even possible to add issues by emailing<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:44:31 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> to a certain emailaddress<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:45:29 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Svennie: correct<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:45:49 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> if the issues are bugs or well defined feature request that's possible (and if they are using it right because &quot;I had a bug when I was doing a session on the portfolio&quot; does not sound as a particularly good use of the tool)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:46:00 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> so .. second try: summary of request for changes in our project management ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:47:22 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> nobody?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:47:30 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> Ok for the summary =&gt; chapter one &quot;current problems&quot;<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:47:55 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> As a nontechnical person, I don&apos;t know where to discuss nontechnical large issues<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:48:35 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> As a technical person, I don&apos;t know a simple way to stay in touch with all the dev changes and features related to my personal work<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:49:11 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> even as a technical person, I don't have any idea on what big changes are planned for the future. I learn of them when they have been implemented (and cause me problems) or if I happen to be at the right place at the right time by chance<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:50:26 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Systh0: so we need solutions for both of the problems ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:50:36 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> non-technical issues: use the forum on chamilo.org<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:51:10 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> technical issues and staying up to date: support website (issue tracking per application, forums)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:51:41 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> discussion ?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:52:14 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> i propose that if we have important discussions on the irc channel<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:52:17 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> that we create a support issue from it<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:52:20 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and add the discussion<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:52:23 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> :-)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:52:38 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> where do you have room for technical and non-technical people involved to discuss ideas<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:53:06 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I would have chosen technical/nontechnical forum for discussion, it helps to check active discussions<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:53:14 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> as in our institution, and it seems to be running very good, we allow these users to follow the support website<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:53:33 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> problem is that the line between technical and non technical are sometimes so close<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:53:43 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and often cross eachoters paths<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:53:52 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> btw .. Chamilo is a work in progress .. so is it community and used tools<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:53:52 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> not everything that is functional possible / wanted is also technical possible<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:54:54 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> so your answer for the non-technical people, who are actively asking for a way to formalize communication and feature requests, is to post it on the forum of chamilo.org?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:55:06 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> on the support website<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:55:12 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> as i have always told koen and others<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:55:27 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font>  this is clearly not working out<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:55:35 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> because they don&apos;t do this<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:55:58 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> we can also start a &apos;Community&apos; project in redmine .. where non-technical user can post and discuss all their wishes and requests ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:56:08 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> it&apos;s not because not every issue that they post isn&apos;t fixed on short notice that the channel of communication is wrong<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:56:15 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> you should know that as a developer<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:56:34 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> we are not talking about issues that need to be fixed asap we are talking about something completely different<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:57:28 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> conceptual ideas and general vision right ?<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:58:00 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> yes and usability, workflow etc... (for non-technical people)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:58:16 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Every successful free software project uses mailinglists for this kind of thing. Why is everyone here insisting on reinventing the wheel? Smells like NIH syndrome, TBH<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:58:25 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> what do those people themselves actually want ?<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:58:36 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> to talk to you about it ;-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:58:55 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: that way you limit it again to small Belgium<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:58:57 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> NathalieB1: Are you purely talking about nontechnical people?<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:59:09 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> I don't know: specific guidelines, procedures, clarity...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:59:16 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> I know about some Spanish people that want to talk to Hans about Chamilo 2.0 :-)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(02:59:31 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> sjamaan: there are two problems: communication with non-developers and developers<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(02:59:53 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> NathalieB1: OK, then I didn&apos;t completely misunderstand. Good :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:00:15 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> I was talking about developer communication when I mentioned mailinglists<br/>
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<font color="#062585"><font size="2">(03:01:35 PM)</font> <b>***ScaraMcDuck</b></font> just realizes Noa sent him some Spanish remarks about 2.0 ... and had completely forgotten about that<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:01:43 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: ;-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:02:09 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Those remarks should be on the mailing list of course ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:02:15 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I hardly dare say it ... but it&apos;s somewhere in the list of mails I still have to go through :(<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:02:16 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> don't you see the problem: why does Noa sent remarks to one specific person?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:02:19 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I&apos;ve had a rapid look at the forum on redmine and I think it lacks some serious features like &apos;new messages since last visit&apos;<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:02:31 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> this project cannot work if we keep using 1on1 communication<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:02:59 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: true, so I ask for suggestions to improve it ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:03:21 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> 1onMany isn&apos;t going to work either though :)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:03:35 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> I have already suggested to set up chamilo as a collaboration platform, but nobody is interested<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:03:51 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: ok, what parts of Chamilo do you want to use<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:03:58 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I actually am ... but could you elaborate on that ?<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:04:18 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> I have already suggested to choose 1 main channel for things like that, but you seem to think that the combination redmine bugtracker/drupal forum is good enough (when practice suggests it isn't)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:05:23 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> the parts that are already being used by perspectief to &quot;collaborate&quot; with their students<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:05:58 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> the part a lot of us are going to use in our universities in a few months to have our students and teachers collaborate<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:06:01 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> does everybody agrees that redmine is a good bugtracker and the drupal forum is a bad forum ?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:06:28 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> drupal forum is definitely evil<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:07:05 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> +1 i h*a*t*e that forum<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:07:44 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: the parts that are already being used by perspectief to &quot;collaborate&quot; with their students ---&gt; that is very vague for me<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:07:47 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> what PARTS<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:07:55 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> sorry NathalieB1 , I didn&apos;t want to interrupt you. But just wanted to open the discussion on what could be doable if we just changed that forum ....<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:08:22 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> no problem systh0<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:08:42 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> Kariboe what parts? weblcms?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:09:09 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> so we should set up a chamilo installation .. create a course &apos;Community&apos; and use its &apos;tools&apos;<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:09:28 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> and that is easier then the redmine/mailing list combination?<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:09:53 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> create different workspaces for the different packages<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:10:10 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> you can subscribe to the workspaces of the workspaces you are interested in<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:10:28 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> you get an icon on your front page when something is added to that workspace<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:10:42 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> yes i def. think that is easier than using redmine<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:10:45 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> something is added ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:10:54 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> something like a document?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:11:02 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> a forum topic?<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:11:05 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> and the mailinglist is not used now anyway. it would already be an improvement if it was<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:11:22 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> yes <br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:11:24 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> NathalieB1: can you guarantee for the stability of the weblcms courses so that no information of these issues would be lost?<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:11:53 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> euh backups<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:12:05 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Svennie: you should believe in your own software of course ;-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:12:33 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> and what about the issue tracker?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:12:35 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> &quot;I believe&quot;<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:12:36 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> you are willing to sell the platform to customers but it is too buggy to use for our own communication... we should be having this discussion on the chamilo.org forum<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:12:42 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> eat your own dogfood ;)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:12:53 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> stick to redmine for that?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:13:00 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I personally disagree to that idea... redmine is a great ticketing system =&gt; we can settle milestones, see the activity, assign people and all that will be lost with weblcms. What we miss is a dicussion system not  a replacement for the ticketing system.<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:13:02 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> there is no problem with redmine.<br/>
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<font color="#062585"><font size="2">(03:13:09 PM)</font> <b>***ScaraMcDuck</b></font> http://tribalinsight.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/i-want-to-believe.jpg ...<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:14:13 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> we could make a portfolio where we post all official documentation and put the rssfeed from redmine at the top<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:14:39 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> we could use the courses/workspaces to discuss things, post documents, comment on documents, ...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:14:41 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> this is becoming interesting<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:14:47 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: I thought the handbook application was developed for creating documentation<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:15:14 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> yes but things like hans's pdf's have to be put somewhere too<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:15:33 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Systh0: isn&apos;t the claroline team going to develop a &apos;workspace&apos; application ??<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:15:36 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> handbook is mainly for user documentation, not developer documentation (although you could use it for that too)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:15:44 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> Kariboe<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:15:46 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> yes<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:15:48 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> documentation = documentation<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:15:59 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Systh0: Perfect!<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:15:59 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> but we have not set a single deadline for now<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:16:02 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> problem solved<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:16:08 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> not at all<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:16:12 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> yesterday<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:16:17 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> handbook application was developed for user-guides and help imo<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:16:23 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> as long as there i sno deadline consider this project failed ;)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:17:18 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> why not use the weblcms as is?  we can still move to the claroline workspaces later<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:17:33 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> or we can just install a stable lcms like dokeos<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:17:42 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> ^^<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:17:59 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> or claroline ofcours ;-) sorry<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:19:09 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> personally I would just begin by replacing the drupal foru with something else, open a documentation forum, a technical discussion forum and a general forum and see how it goes<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:19:42 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> but I fully agree with the &quot;eat your own dogfood&quot; idea<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:19:54 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> next to providing a central collaboration platform. it would be a good thing to use our own product as developers, to see the flaws and have the experiences our users have<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:20:04 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> that means a lot if we don&apos;t use our own system<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:20:11 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Systh0: as long as we don&apos;t have anonymous user access .. all our ideas will be hidden behind the login box :-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:20:29 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> no pressure eh Kariboe ... :p<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:20:38 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> now all our ideas are hidden in someone's mailbox<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:21:07 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> one more reason to begin with &apos;just&apos; a forum<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:21:10 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> you mean: http://lists.chamilo.org/mailman/listinfo<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:21:26 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> or this: http://lists.chamilo.org/pipermail/dev/<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:21:42 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> and you could use self-registration, no? now you have to have an account too to post on the forum<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:21:50 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> yep but mails doesn&apos;t allow to edit the first post to keep things updated...<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:22:10 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> kariboe: yes I see many many ideas discussed on those lists<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:22:37 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: I know, but we don&apos;t have a lot of developers using the dev list :-)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:23:02 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> so it is not working<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:23:12 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> Concerning themailing list : if I were new to chamilo i would much prefer browsing a forum than a mailing list published on internet<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:24:06 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> not even to mention the easy FAQ and &quot;read before posting&quot; &quot;annoucement&quot; &quot;post-it&quot; and things like that<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:24:07 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Systh0: As a dev or as a regular user?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:24:17 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> both<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:24:26 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: strange, because you used a dutch oriented google groups mailings not so very long ago .. even Koen was on that mailing list .. but using the official one was too difficult I guess<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:24:38 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> As a dev, one of the first things I do when I want to dive in is register for a mailinglist<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:24:45 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> I don&apos;t have time to mess with fiddly forum software<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:24:55 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> as a dev I would like to see what is currently discussed or why something has been decided, as a regular user I&apos;d like to know how to do this or that or if someone has encountered the same problem I have<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:24:59 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Especially if you&apos;re participating in 10 projects, you&apos;d have to use 10 different stupid forums<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:25:01 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> I was told to use that mailinglist<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:25:06 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> I have everything in mutt now<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:25:20 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> And that works fine; in the mornings I can quickly rip through the discussions on several lists<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:26:02 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> What about a forum-mailing list linked system then ? does that exist ?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:26:13 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> That doesn&apos;t work<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:26:19 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> so .. each developer/non-technical user has its own preferred way of communcation channel ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:26:28 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Especially when you start doing things like you mentioned; editing posts after the fact<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:26:41 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> the moment you will set up a chamilo installation with courses .. people will complain<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:26:49 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Systh0: How many projects are you following?  Only chamilo?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:27:14 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> phpbb allows you to have notifications sent<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:27:17 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> of each forum / topic<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:27:20 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> chamilo, claroline, phpunit + a quite big serie of ruby based projects<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:27:23 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> sjamaan: I believe on other tiny project too .. Claroline is it named<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:27:24 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> so you can couple a forum to emails<br/>
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<font color="#062585"><font size="2">(03:27:25 PM)</font> <b>***sjamaan</b></font> is subscribed to about 25 mailinglists, of about 10 different projects<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:27:43 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> I wouldn&apos;t want to go 10 different websites and wade through slow unusable forum software<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:27:53 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> whether it&apos;s mailing lists or forums .. it&apos;s never fast to go through ...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:28:08 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: Not if you read *everything*<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:28:11 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> sjamaan : I have rss on all those forums ;)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:28:26 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Systh0: You can&apos;t reply from rss :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:28:26 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I go to them when i see sth interesting in my rss<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:28:30 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> if you don&apos;t read things, what&apos;s the point in receiving them ...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:28:41 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: Skim the thread subjects and read the ones you want to read<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:29:00 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> some mailing lists are very active<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:29:15 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and why are mail notifications / rss of forum software so hard then sjamaan?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:29:23 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> and I guess the same goes for forums: read only the topics you&apos;re interested in<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:29:26 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Svennie: |15:24| ( sjamaan) Especially when you start doing things like you mentioned; editing posts after the fact<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:29:26 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> yes but will you know things that have been posted in the past ...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:29:27 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> i mean, you keep the benefits of the forum but still have the mail software to follow<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:29:33 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> cursed are those with a lot of interests :p<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:30:09 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: Forums have threads too generally, but they&apos;re inside a sucky gooey application called the browser, and each forum has its own interface and website<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:30:39 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> I have everything in one mailclient which I can access everywhere. hell, I can run grep on the mailbox files if I have to find something quickly<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:31:02 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I fully agree that email are great for present things : annoucement or very small discussion, tiny question-answer but for past things (faq, how-to) or future things (discussion about big changes) they suck (IMHO)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:31:04 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> In short: I can use my own toolchain. With websites I have to use whatever someone decided to provide me<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:31:07 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> with<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:31:18 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Systh0: Agreed<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:31:20 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> what about that nabble thingy<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:31:32 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> For big changes you could work with a wiki<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:31:47 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> That&apos;s also instantly versioned<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:31:48 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I know things like Opencast have a mailing list but at the same time it&apos;s available as a forum as well<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:32:27 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I&apos;m subscribed to their mailing list for continuous updates, but use the forum for &quot;research&quot;<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:32:53 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> by the way .. not all of our &apos;problems&apos; can be solved with switching tools<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:33:40 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Kariboe: People sending mail to just one or two other devs won&apos;t get solved by switching tools. They&apos;ll continue to do that. It&apos;s also about educating them<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:33:47 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> http://n4.nabble.com/archive-your-mailing-list.html &lt;== would this be the best of both worlds ?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:34:27 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: Everytime you get a personal mail from someone about the project that should be more widely seen/discussed, just tell them to post it to the list. That would probably help<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:34:47 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> sjamaan: i suggest that to all people that contact me about the project<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:34:54 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> but they actually have to do it too<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:34:57 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Kariboe: Good. Does it work?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:35:05 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and seriously it&apos;s not that we get THAT much requests in private mail...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:35:24 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> yes it works ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:35:24 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> most things that have been discussed / implemented where either discussed on the mailing list / the support website / here on irc<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:36:50 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> @sjamaan: what does that have to do with the entire forum vs. mailing list thing  and the nabble solution?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:37:45 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: It was mentioned that you got mails personally, and Kariboe mentioned switching tools won&apos;t solve our problems, so I thought he was referring to that problem, among other things<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:38:45 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> Uhm .. If I get one personal mail each week about Chamilo 2 in general each week, that would be a lot<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:39:08 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> most mails are generalized things :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:39:20 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> ah, then it&apos;s not as bad as I thought it was<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:39:52 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> no ofcourse not :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:40:04 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> nope ... I get lots of mails, that much is true ... but things like notifications from the support website count as well<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:40:04 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> because there is no clear place for it a lot of things are not discussed<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:40:22 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> NathalieB1 also said people were phoning/facebooking/whatever to get a response to something on a mailinglist. That&apos;s also bad practice which is not in the spirit of openness<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:41:20 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> it&apos;s not something I&apos;m personally aware of ... so I&apos;m not going to comment on that :)<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:42:12 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> I am going to give an example: the switch to PHP 5.3 and all the refactoring afterwards. where and with who was it discussed<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:42:30 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> PHP 5.3 was posted to the mailing list ...<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:42:32 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> where can we find the records of that. i cna't find it in the mailinglist, I can't find it in the bugtracker<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:43:03 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> it was announced on the mailinglist after it was done<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:43:11 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> that's something completely different<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:43:13 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: Are you referring to the post with subject &quot;PHP Version Statistics&quot;, of 25 sept?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:43:41 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> yup ... that was the initial call for information<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:44:03 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> I don&apos;t see a followup post on the ML about a final decision<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:44:11 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Just people posting what they were using/doing<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:44:27 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: the past is maybe not the perfect reference of the way we should work together .. it is a learning process<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:44:43 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I didn&apos;t see any remarks from any developers either ...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:44:56 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> I can confirm that php 5.3 was posted onto the mailinglist before the switch<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:45:00 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> but again with no answers / remakrs<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:45:38 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: There was a reply from yannick, yourself and ivan<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:46:04 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> yes ... all positive as well<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:46:09 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Also, it was more like a general question about information<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:46:15 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> there you said Making PHP 5.3 a minimum requirement for Chamilo 2.0 seems a bit early' and in the next thread about the subject, on oct 5. you are announcing that you made the changes and would be pushing them after the release<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:46:22 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> It wasn&apos;t a spot-on question &quot;do you think we should do this&quot;?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:46:33 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> It was more like &quot;where can I find info about 5.3?&quot;<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:46:37 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> we should stop looking at the past .. how do want to organise it today :-) :-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:46:59 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Kariboe: Those who don&apos;t learn from the past ... etc<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:47:06 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> no we should not stop looking at the past. if you all keep stating that there was nothing wrong with the way things were done in the past, they are not going to change<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:47:17 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Looking at good &amp; bad examples help in figuring out how to do it better<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:47:33 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> I&apos;m not saying it was right or wrong .. I&apos;m just saying we should try to find a better solution now ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:47:49 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> we are discussing basicly the same issues for more than 3 hours now ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:48:06 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> Hi I was only &apos;AWAY&apos; for 1 hour....<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:48:09 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Kariboe: This particular post is a good example, actually.  How it should be done: post a clearer question if that&apos;s what&apos;s really being asked<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:48:20 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> \back<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:48:22 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> And then once the decision is about to be made, ask if people have objections<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:48:39 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> because it is a very important issue, it has been a very important issue for the past year and it will continue to be an important issue (one driving people away) when not dealt with<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:48:47 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> +1<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:48:54 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> I think all understand that &apos;something&apos; is/was wrong in the way we communicate<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:49:00 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I started to read this discussion...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:49:06 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> there are plenty of examples where we could have done better<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:49:20 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> ok .. I think we can all agree on that :-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:49:30 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> but I give up....<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:49:34 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> if it was that important why didn&apos;t you reply on the first mail then?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:49:37 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Kariboe: Exactly. And that means we should analyze those examples and figure out how it went wrong<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:49:43 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> And fix that the next time<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:49:55 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> what first mail are you talking about<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:50:14 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Svennie: The first mail wasn&apos;t about switching Chamilo to 5.3. It was asking about examples of other projects<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:50:28 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> It also mentioned passingly that it was *too early* to switch Chamilo<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:50:31 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> please keep also in mind that one year ago the project Chamilo was new .. with no infrastructure, support website, mailing lists, procedures or agreements<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:50:50 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> we can keep going on about this forever and it won&apos;t change a thing<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:51:19 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: I already asked two times for a summary with things we should change<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:51:24 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> so if it helps: my mistake, I should have asked for your permission, was just trying to do the right thing to make the deadline which was there right then<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:51:35 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I know Kariboe ...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:52:02 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I wish I had an anwer but I&apos;ll use whichever system all the other users and developers want to use<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:52:04 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> ScaraMcDuck: Nobody is blaming you. We&apos;re just trying to point out an example of how it went wrong<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:52:14 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> why must everything be about &quot;asking&quot; and &quot;giving&quot; permissions.<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:52:33 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> it&apos;s not ... it wasn&apos;t meant to sound that strong :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:53:06 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> ok .. can we send everybody home with some homework?<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:53:20 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> it is about letting people know what's up. what is going to change, when ... so people can adjust their planning to it<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:53:26 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> do discuss on the next irc meeting: how do we see our internal communication?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:53:33 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> and external communication<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:53:36 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Kariboe: OK, easy summary: Announce project decisions ahead of time on the ML, and do it clearly. When the decision is final, post it to the ML too.<br/>
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<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(03:54:01 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> i don't even think we should care about external communication as long as &quot;internal communication&quot; is not sorted out<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:54:07 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> +1<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:54:16 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> + 0,5<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:54:20 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> haha<br/>
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<font color="#062585"><font size="2">(03:56:15 PM)</font> <b>***sjamaan</b></font> would again like to point out the amazing book &quot;producing OSS&quot; http://producingoss.com/en/communications.html<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:56:42 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Most of these issues have been solved before by many other projects<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:57:02 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> sjamaan: I have read it :-)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:58:04 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> k, just saying :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:58:28 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> I created a small overview of all our technical &apos;infrastructure&apos; for the association .. http://www.mindomo.com/view?m=2deb2c5ee2b1434fbb20a77495bb1901<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:58:44 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> If we can find a way to smoothen that all ..<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:59:09 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> Can someone post the problems (I think there is 3 or maybe 4 major problems pointe dout today) on the ML and ask people to prepare solution for friday. maybe open up a google doc / wiki page so that people can propos thing even if they don&apos;t come friday<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(03:59:29 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> so .. I recall my question: let&apos;s plan a discussion about this but with better preparation<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:01:03 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> and external communication should be a part of the solution too .. how can we attract more people if we only focus on internal communication<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:01:48 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I would prefer we manage to find something that works internally first though<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:01:54 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Kariboe: Since much of the internal communication is publically visible (it&apos;s all in the open, it&apos;s an open source project) half of that problem is solved once the internal communication is solved<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:02:08 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> The solution is simple I think, just use a Forum like in the D-time<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:02:11 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> If internally everything&apos;s crystal clear, an outsider can find that info too<br/>
652
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:02:26 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I propose 2 axis of reflexion : past/present/future and technical/nontechnical<br/>
653
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:02:32 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> if there was one good thing in the D-time it was its forum.<br/>
654
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:02:33 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> ok<br/>
655
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:02:45 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> so we have tech/past  =&gt; why was that decision made ?<br/>
656
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:02:59 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> Internal and external communiction is soloved that way.<br/>
657
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:03:02 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> tech present =&gt; I want to be notified of everything I &quot;follow&quot;<br/>
658
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:03:20 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> an IRC-channel does not work for me....<br/>
659
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:03:20 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> tech future =&gt; discussion about structural changes (for instance)<br/>
660
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:03:37 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> nontech / past =&gt; faq, how-to, documentation<br/>
661
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:03:40 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> THLU: A forum does not work for me. It&apos;s all very personal, which is part of the problem I think<br/>
662
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:04:07 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> non-tech present : bug / help me to do that /<br/>
663
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:04:16 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> non tech future =&gt; features demands<br/>
664
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:04:16 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> For as far i can see you&apos;re the only one...<br/>
665
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:04:34 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> THLU: Fair enough<br/>
666
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:05:12 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> Systh0: can you summarize that on a wiki page?<br/>
667
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:05:18 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> ;-)<br/>
668
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:05:31 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> http://support.chamilo.org/projects/chamilo-20/wiki<br/>
669
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:05:32 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> give me an address ;)<br/>
670
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:05:55 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> a lot of people meassure a projects activity and credibility on the forum&apos;s activity..<br/>
671
<font size="2">(04:06:01 PM)</font><b> Systho [<em>~Systho@92.241-200-80.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be</em>] entered the room.</b><br/>
672
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:06:28 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> THLU =&gt; true and also latest release/update<br/>
673
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:06:28 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> THLU: That&apos;s a straw man. The same thing works for mailinglists or whatever other system you can come up with<br/>
674
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:06:43 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> http://support.chamilo.org/projects/chamilo-20/wiki/Communication_Channels<br/>
675
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:07:03 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> for mailingslist you&apos;ll have to subscribe first.<br/>
676
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:07:07 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> sjamaan  I disagree =&gt; anonymous user will just go on the forum page and check latest message in different topics<br/>
677
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:07:19 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> much quicker than subscribing to mailing list<br/>
678
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:07:20 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> I suggest we leave the discussion here .. and everybody adds his own part on that wiki page<br/>
679
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:07:35 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Systh0: You can browse the archives of mailinglists anonymously too without subscribing<br/>
680
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:07:53 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> And find it through search engines<br/>
681
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:08:05 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> yes I can but lambda users don&apos;t want to<br/>
682
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:08:11 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> (that&apos;s why I suggested nabble ...)<br/>
683
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:08:21 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> Systh0: That&apos;s why it&apos;s good to distinguish between tech and nontech<br/>
684
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:08:35 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> But i believe that irc discussions aren&apos;t bad either, as long as the results could be saved somewhere<br/>
685
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:08:46 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> and where will tech and nontech meet???<br/>
686
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:08:47 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> because we already solved lots of issues by the direct feedback we have here<br/>
687
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:09:02 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I have archives of every singe bit that I attended ...<br/>
688
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:09:13 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I could post those &quot;somewhere&quot;<br/>
689
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:10:40 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> my experiance now is that irc is not the way to go.<br/>
690
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:10:56 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I was only away for 1 hour leaving irc open...<br/>
691
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:11:32 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> it does give somewhat of a false impression of things because of the direct nature of it<br/>
692
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:11:52 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> but to tak part of the discussion i would have to read everything first, to be part of the discussion<br/>
693
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:12:27 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> but if i did that I probably be allone when was finished. :-)<br/>
694
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:12:43 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> and the discussion would be over.<br/>
695
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:13:25 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> agreed ludwig, but using another channel would probably not have this much feedback<br/>
696
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:13:32 PM)</font> <b>Kariboe:</b></font> NathalieB1: Do you have time this week to write some stuff about this on the wiki?<br/>
697
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:13:41 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> this is the closest thing we could get to virtually meet<br/>
698
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:14:36 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> For a meeting it&apos;s ok.<br/>
699
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:15:07 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> the problem is that we have used already tons of ways of communication methods<br/>
700
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:15:16 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> but the only platform where we get this amount of feedback / discussions<br/>
701
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:15:18 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> is here<br/>
702
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:15:26 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> i mean if you would have a forum<br/>
703
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:15:40 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and you have the same amount of discussion then you would already have more then 20 pages of posts<br/>
704
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:15:54 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> if you are then gone for an hour it&apos;s even worse to read through it<br/>
705
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:16:17 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I don&apos;t think so, becuase yout would have the time team to read it and to think about your answer<br/>
706
<font size="2">(04:17:05 PM)</font><b> Kariboe left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024001]).</b><br/>
707
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:17:10 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> now yyou don&apos;t have the time to think about the answer...<br/>
708
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:18:02 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> And i could correct my typing errors....   ;-)<br/>
709
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:18:24 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> if we would save the logs somewhere it&apos;s always possible to add some after discussions<br/>
710
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:19:24 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> But it would be difficult to categorise all that.<br/>
711
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:19:29 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> Don&apos;t get me wrong i&apos;m not opposed to another platform, as long as someone can guarantee me that there is the same amount activity as here, and because need to change and that will take time / work we would need to demand that the activity is bigger then here<br/>
712
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:20:17 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> The IRC works for now. But if you have a lot of users, I hope we will have on day, It will be confusing.<br/>
713
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:20:33 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> but there is a user forum<br/>
714
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:20:42 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> there is a dev forum, but it isn&apos;t used<br/>
715
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:20:45 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> there is a dev mailing list<br/>
716
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:20:47 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> there is a dev wiki<br/>
717
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:20:49 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> there is a support website<br/>
718
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:21:03 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> we almost have every possible communication tool available<br/>
719
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:21:23 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> we seem to have more tools then actuals devs :p<br/>
720
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:21:39 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> but it has only been used in the past as one way communication lane from the lead developers to the others<br/>
721
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:21:39 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> just wanted to say that.  ;-)<br/>
722
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:21:48 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> that&apos;s the problem I think.<br/>
723
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:21:52 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> don&apos;t want to offend you ludwig ;)<br/>
724
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:22:05 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> I also would like the best way for communication<br/>
725
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:22:17 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> but communication means a two way conversation<br/>
726
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:22:22 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and not a one way press release<br/>
727
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:22:26 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> heh<br/>
728
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:22:33 PM)</font> <b>sjamaan:</b></font> The website&apos;s &quot;news&quot; is for that, isn&apos;t it?<br/>
729
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:22:37 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> correct<br/>
730
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:22:53 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> if it&apos;s a press release then &quot;ain&apos;t that great?&quot;<br/>
731
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:23:10 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> no free iPads at the exit though<br/>
732
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:23:14 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I&apos;me sure if there was a forum used like in the D-days, I would be much further now.<br/>
733
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:23:41 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> frankly the website sucks...<br/>
734
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:24:04 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> you&apos;ll have to go through all the languages to not mis anything...<br/>
735
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:24:18 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> some items are posted only in dutch,<br/>
736
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:24:28 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> some ony in english,<br/>
737
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:24:36 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> some only in spanish...<br/>
738
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:24:40 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> i don&apos;t like the website either<br/>
739
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:24:43 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> i don&apos;t like drupal as such<br/>
740
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:25:07 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I don&apos;t think you can blame the system.<br/>
741
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:25:21 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I agree you shouold use chamilo 2.0 it self...<br/>
742
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:25:33 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> in time we will ludwig<br/>
743
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:25:46 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> but don&apos;t you agree with me that we should first try to get all the usability stuff / issues and so fixed<br/>
744
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:25:50 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> before we move there?<br/>
745
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:26:14 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> i mean, as far as we know there is no one in production stage with chamilo 2<br/>
746
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:26:22 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> it should be pretty dump to use that as our backbone right now isn&apos;t it?<br/>
747
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:27:23 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> dump lol, force of habbit 88<br/>
748
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:29:26 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> but now they are spending a lot of money to build a website to promote a Chamilo,<br/>
749
<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(04:30:17 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> we have been in production stage with chamilo 2.0 since september<br/>
750
<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(04:30:24 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> ehb is using it as a portal<br/>
751
<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(04:30:29 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> ehb is using it for the survey<br/>
752
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:30:32 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I don&apos;t think you need a completely finsched Chamilo 2.0 to us as website...<br/>
753
<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(04:30:39 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> all production i would think<br/>
754
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:30:47 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> you only need a few &apos;modules&apos;<br/>
755
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:31:07 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> the core is allready stable you made us believe.<br/>
756
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:31:19 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> we would need the anonymous access for the website though :p<br/>
757
<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(04:31:31 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> we need it anyway ;-)<br/>
758
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:31:44 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> we really, REALLY do :D<br/>
759
<font color="#16569E"><font size="2">(04:31:56 PM)</font> <b>NathalieB1:</b></font> they can keep their website for commercial purposes without a problem<br/>
760
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:32:15 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> De rode ridder is already running for a few years now....<br/>
761
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:32:32 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> isn&apos;t that based on chamilo....<br/>
762
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:32:34 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> that&apos;s a very, very ... VERY old version in desperate need of an update<br/>
763
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:32:35 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> at first...<br/>
764
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:32:49 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> (and I need anonymous access for that as well)<br/>
765
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:32:55 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> ;-)<br/>
766
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:33:07 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> all other unique functionality has already been ported to C2<br/>
767
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:33:18 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> so priority 1 anonymous access<br/>
768
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:33:31 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> priority 2:  goo forum..<br/>
769
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:33:32 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> btw, all production != weblcms with entire repository (which is basically 75% of the system)<br/>
770
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:33:46 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> and everithing discussed here is solved ;-)<br/>
771
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:33:51 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> everything<br/>
772
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:34:56 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> Priority 2: good working forum... :-p<br/>
773
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:35:11 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> which is now using content objects<br/>
774
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:35:21 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and thats good in an elearning environment<br/>
775
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:35:28 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> if it weren&apos;t for the fact that I&apos;ve got a few dozain comic covers that need a few layers of digital colour ... I&apos;d probably already have invested some time in it<br/>
776
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:36:11 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> can&apos;t you make an offer ScaraMcDuck...<br/>
777
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:36:24 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I&apos;ve submitted a first version of the wiki page<br/>
778
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:36:26 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> then I&apos;me sure we get value for the money....  ;-)<br/>
779
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:36:40 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> feel free to change everything ;)<br/>
780
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:36:48 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> now I&apos;me not so sure.....<br/>
781
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:36:53 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> it&apos;s only my opinion and my summary ;)<br/>
782
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:37:00 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> it&apos;s no longer a matter of money Ludwig ... just time :)<br/>
783
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:37:22 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I know....<br/>
784
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:37:33 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> and I really, really enjoy the non-C2 thing as well ... so ... no luck, I commend you for trying though ;-)<br/>
785
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:37:57 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I&apos;m sorry but I think the same way...<br/>
786
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:38:38 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I&apos;m not in it for the money....<br/>
787
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:38:55 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> true.dat :)<br/>
788
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:39:27 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> now if only Disney would get off their lazy ***** and ask me to do some colouring for Uncle Scrooge I&apos;d be a somewhat happier man :p<br/>
789
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:39:46 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> hahaha<br/>
790
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:40:24 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> did you apply ?<br/>
791
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:40:27 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> couldn&apos;t you take the first step yourself? :)<br/>
792
<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:40:31 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> that&apos;d probably be UC 2.0 :-S<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:40:53 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> I could ... but could I really abandon you lads to a somewhat scary faith :p<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:41:14 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> well not really<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:41:19 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> i would like to be a rollercoaster builder<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:41:25 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> and since disney has a lot of amusment parks ;)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:41:27 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> once you are in xD<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:41:55 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> if you knew Uncle Scrooge you&apos;d know hardly anyone gets into the money bin :p<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:42:25 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> :P<br/>
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<font size="2">(04:42:26 PM)</font><b> Systho left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101206121845]).</b><br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:44:17 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> Svennie<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:44:28 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I&apos;m sorry to get you back to the real chamilo worl<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:44:37 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> no problem :)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:44:53 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> but I&apos;ve finished writing some of my tests and when I try to install chamilo<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:45:05 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> I run into the same problem your students found (I guess)<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:45:11 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> ok<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:45:17 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> install stops after config file has been written<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:45:22 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> same with my students<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:45:25 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> but i still need to look at it<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:45:30 PM)</font> <b>Systh0:</b></font> have you found the problem already or should I dive into the code ?<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:45:42 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> it&apos;s my task for tomorrow =&gt; internship days are on thursday with us<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:45:53 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> where we spend an entire day with checking the code of our students + helping them a lot<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:46:55 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I sounds like the error I had before...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:47:31 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> now you&apos;ve all gone and done it ... curious about the error and opening Zend right now :p<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:47:45 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> In my case... not everything was pulled from bitbucket...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:47:56 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> because of missing dirs...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:48:24 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> will add placeholders for those ASAP ludwig<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:51:24 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> pushed the changes Ludwig ... it could / should be okay now<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:52:03 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> for the dev or for the stable???<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:52:10 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> dev<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:54:32 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> ok I will delete the dev and pull it again to see if I get everything.<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:54:43 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> locally of course<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:55:21 PM)</font> <b>Svennie:</b></font> nice<br/>
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<font size="2">(04:55:51 PM)</font><b> Svennie left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).</b><br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:56:13 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I&apos;ve just pulled the &apos;stable&apos; and there I get an error with retrieving common/extensions/external_repository_manager/implementation/box<br/>
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<font size="2">(04:56:18 PM)</font><b> pjbr left the room (quit: Quit: pjbr).</b><br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:56:50 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> if I remember correctly there was / is some kind of problem with the . in box.net<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:58:18 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> it&apos;s not urgent I think,<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(04:59:17 PM)</font> <b>THLU:</b></font> I just want to mention it, as i see the error in the script output...<br/>
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<font color="#A82F2F"><font size="2">(05:00:35 PM)</font> <b>ScaraMcDuck:</b></font> fixed as well now :)<br/>
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<font size="2">(05:02:25 PM)</font><b> The account has disconnected and you are no longer in this chat. You will be automatically rejoined in the chat when the account reconnects.</b><br/>
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